tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13840519.post2131987981438038485..comments2024-03-27T03:32:53.817-05:00Comments on Euangelion: Love Wins 2Michael F. Birdhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09713482855679578651noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13840519.post-41836482300144186842011-05-05T14:47:52.578-05:002011-05-05T14:47:52.578-05:00Thanks for clarifying. And I'm sorry if I comp...Thanks for clarifying. And I'm sorry if I completely mischaracterized the nature of the conversation. I do recall, perhaps its just in my own mind, a sense of cautiousness in how widely you wished to disseminate such a view in the context of a church culture such as ours. However, I might have misunderstood completely.Joel Willittshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02042392686311490603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13840519.post-9599934648463372212011-05-05T14:38:24.888-05:002011-05-05T14:38:24.888-05:00You should know that my confession was not due to ...You should know that my confession was not due to the safety of your ear, but your relationship to the author who swayed me toward evangelical universalism. Like him, I consider myself a "hopeful" universalist, unwilling to stake my (or anyone else's) eternity on this.<br /><br />Regarding that first point (relatively few will be saved), I suspect Bell is alluding to the views of many so-called Calvinists in this regard. But, perhaps I'm wrong.CrazyLoverWannabehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02486684790194138022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13840519.post-67827184297447141902011-04-08T08:57:44.147-05:002011-04-08T08:57:44.147-05:00Joshua,
You said "The Kingdom of God is spir...Joshua,<br /><br />You said "The Kingdom of God is spiritualized in one sense, but not individualized or personalized per se." I agree. The divine essence is omnipresent; we might personalize it when conscious of it.Ron Krumposhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05371279514024960026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13840519.post-42306458486840895222011-04-08T01:09:03.041-05:002011-04-08T01:09:03.041-05:00Nice post, very helpful!Nice post, very helpful!Matt Wilcoxenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13658250677775728356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13840519.post-4105992621884799502011-04-03T11:51:57.021-05:002011-04-03T11:51:57.021-05:00Makes me want to read the book. However, I would r...Makes me want to read the book. However, I would rather do so in the company of others because according to another blogger Love Wins raises many questions.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08142682288827296330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13840519.post-35068207268478890552011-04-03T10:05:01.078-05:002011-04-03T10:05:01.078-05:00Very good post Joel. Very helpful.Very good post Joel. Very helpful.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12810226593245885930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13840519.post-56339286525965444012011-04-02T22:25:02.906-05:002011-04-02T22:25:02.906-05:00Ron,
I don't want to squabble about things th...Ron,<br /><br />I don't want to squabble about things that are besides the main point here, but I have a point of loving correction. Jesus did not contend that "The Kingdom of Heaven is within." He said that the Kingdom of Heaven is not something that can be observed, nor can it be said it is "over there" because it is in our midst (see Luke 17.20-21). The Kingdom of God is spiritualized in one sense, but not individualized or personalized per se.Joshua Woodenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11975844131871254649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13840519.post-23831907536474121752011-04-02T21:19:30.575-05:002011-04-02T21:19:30.575-05:00My initial comment was primarily about alternate v...My initial comment was primarily about alternate views of an afterlife. Rob Bell has never claimed to be a mystic, but is open to contemplative prayer and meditation. While not a Universalist, he does respect people of other religions.<br /><br />Even within Christianity there are differing views of afterlife between Protestants, Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Mormons, etc. In any discussion between people, there will be varying personal opinions and interpretations of scriptures. Most mystics, of any faith, would agree with Jesus: "The Kingdom of Heaven is within." If you want to find Hell just read, watch or listen to the daily news or study the unkind history of humankind.Ron Krumposhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05371279514024960026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13840519.post-50290511217514867112011-04-02T20:40:46.467-05:002011-04-02T20:40:46.467-05:00Well we haven't defined heaven yet which is im...Well we haven't defined heaven yet which is important in such a discussion, but yes I think a central aspect of Jesus teaching was getting into the soon coming kingdom which I equate with heaven.Joel Willittshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02042392686311490603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13840519.post-935548680538109112011-04-02T19:41:21.443-05:002011-04-02T19:41:21.443-05:00Joel,
Do you really mean to say that the central...Joel, <br /><br />Do you really mean to say that the central truth of Christianity is about getting out of hell and into heaven? Or, are you presenting this as Rob's view? If so, I'd have to disagree with you. Can you elaborate?<br /><br />Chris SkinnerChristopher W. Skinnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11962045745879885164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13840519.post-22042083595480373082011-04-02T15:56:51.570-05:002011-04-02T15:56:51.570-05:00You've misunderstood me and misunderstood Wrig...You've misunderstood me and misunderstood Wright. <br /><br />Three thoughts: (1) Jesus talks excessively about entering the Kingdom. Getting in is central for both Jew and Gentile according to Jesus. (2) You are not appropriately applying the New Perspective language of "staying in". This is a statement about 2nd Temple Judaism not Jesus Messianism. (3) I intend to include all three points made there so don't focus just on that one point. The totality of those three are what I am asserting is not orthodox Christianity.Joel Willittshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02042392686311490603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13840519.post-86089185388220884252011-04-02T15:39:26.272-05:002011-04-02T15:39:26.272-05:00However, to call a view that ... argues that nothi...<i>However, to call a view that ... argues that nothing of what is central to the Gospel story is about “getting in” is not orthodox Christianity by any stretch.</i><br /><br />Dismissing a theologian of the calibre of NT Wright (as you just have) as not orthodox is fighting talk.<br /><br />Christianity has <b>nothing at all</b> to do with <i>getting</i> in - but it has everything to do with <i>remaining</i> in the covenanted relationship that God creates.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09194881271051758232noreply@blogger.com